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August 01, 2008

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Ocho Ocho

I agree. This lack of appreciation spells the apex of Boston sports. The extreme hubris of the Pats. Well, I cannot knock the Celtics. But the Sox and their animal fans, I would like to smear excrement on each and every as you did to Bill Russell's home out of appreciation for his bringing 12 Championships to Auerbach.

I truly hope he becomes a Yankee and He, Arod and Damon cause the Nation to puke their crappy slated stadium seats from now till eternity.

Art Vandelay

Asinine on so many levels. Red Sox fans gave Manny a free pass for years. Nobody around here could have cared less what an asshole the guy was. Some ignored it. Some embraced it. However when it gets to the point where the guy is just taking himself out of line ups for no reason and publically ripping your organization, it's time to fucking go. I'd have to believe Jason Bay, plus the idea of removing the pariah from your locker room is gonna work out great. Plus, isn't Bay like 6 years younger?

I can't even begin to address the idea that Manny came here and gave them two rings. It's just so dumb.

jackie

Let me simplify.

No Manny. No Rings. No Question.

"plus the idea of removing the pariah from your locker room is gonna work out great."

Yup, the same pariah who has been the straw that stirs the offensive drink on tons of major league baseball games that just win.

Oooooh, he is bad for chemistry. What's next? He has The Cooties?

Art Vandelay

Know what else? The idea that you can villify Favre just for a pattern of changing his mind about retiring in the off-season mind you...not during a season...and then sit here and play the "Oh, but look what he's done for that organization" card for Manny is off the charts ridiculous.

Also, I can probably name a few guys that 20 million dollars a year would have bought that could have contributed to their World Series just as much as Manny.

Ocho Ocho

Disagree. Dont like Manny or his attitude. But he is one of if not the most productive hitter in baseball. I would like to read that list. And please extend it over 10 years to compare properly.

H.E. Pennypacker

2008 OPS... Ramirez: .927 / Bay: .894
* Not too much difference, really.

2008 Zone Rating... Ramirez: .744 / Bay: .806
* Fenway's LF is way, way smaller, too.

2008 "Close and Late" Hitting...
Ramirez: .237 AVG, .917 OPS / Bay: .309 AVG, 1.054 OPS
* Manny's OK, but Bay's clearly better.

Plus, Manny is 36 and his numbers have declined in recent years; Bay's 29 and, aside from a dismal '07, is consistently very good. Not to mention he makes $14 mil less this year.

jackie

"The idea that you can villify Favre just for a pattern of changing his mind about retiring in the off-season mind you"

You are grasping at straws, Vandelay. Not only does Favre, have nothing to do with this, but that is factually incorrect. I simply said that Favre is an asshole for going on that interview with Van Sustern, airing shit that should not be aired and tossing anyone and everyone under the bus. It was a selfish, douchebag thing to do. Please explain how that has a thing to do with the Red Sox trading Manny mid-season. Apples and Bowling Balls.

Plus, I would take Favre on the Jets in a heartbeat, just like I would take Manny on the Yankees.

Why?

Because they fucking produce.

"Also, I can probably name a few guys that 20 million dollars a year would have bought that could have contributed to their World Series just as much as Manny."

Bullshit.

That's really all the response that is needed, however, if Manny has been such a big bad person all along, why didn't the Sox just rid themselves of him earlier and pick up one of these 20 or so other guys who are "the Vandelay sponsored" equivalent of one of the best hitters ever to play the game?

jackie

Pennypacker:

Bay does not and will not strike fear in anybody. Bay will not in anyway prevent team after team, pitcher after pitcher from pitching around Ortiz. Bay has never played a meaningful major league game in his life. Bay hits like shit with runners in scoring position.

Please with the nonsense.

Art Vandelay

Rodriguez, Bonds, Guerrero, Pujols, Tejada, Helton, Ordonez, Delgado...

Just as easy as you can speculate that you replace Manny with one of them they'd win nothing, I can speculate that they'd win 5 in a row.

Jack Klompus

Jackie says: "He brings you two rings"

and then

"Please with the nonsense.

Manny joined in '01. Yes, he was an integral part of the two championships -- but I think your statement way overdoes it. Especially when you consider the likes of Papi, Schilling, Beckett, and Lowell (to name a few).

"You're gonna replace him with Jason Bay?"

Nope. As Pennypacker pointed out, Manny is making $14 mil more. That can cerntainly buy you some talent (or not). They'll probably just raid the Twins next year, since Minnesota's franchises appear to be Boston's farm system for all sports.

jackie

Just as easy as you can speculate that you replace Manny with one of them they'd win nothing, I can speculate that they'd win 5 in a row.

Yup, just as easy as I can speculate that if your uncle had tits, he would be your aunt.

Oh wait, bad example.

That said, there is no speculation that the Sox won two rings with Manny (and Manny winning the MVP in one, and being an intergral part of the other) and zero for about a million years without him.

Just for goofs, how many rings do those guys you listed have?

Nice work with the ellipses too. Basically an admission that your 20 was a crock a shit. That, and listing Helton, Ordonez and Delgado.

Thanks for the laugh.

Yes, Klompus, I meant to imply that Manny won them all by himself. I honestly don't think those other cats should've even taken the field.

Like I said, no Manny, no rings.

Dr. Tim Whatley

Pennypacker:

I am thoroughly impressed with your research on many issues here. Very nice. If I weren't drunk half the time, I might try.

As for Manny, couldn't agree more with you, Mr. Chiles. Two rings in four years after 80 something without and you think he's an asshole? Good luck in the off-season fellas.

jackie

Preemptive strike: One fucking game, so please STFU.

Back to Favre -- who as I pointed out has absolutely no bearing on this Manning discussion despite Vandelay's misguided ad hominen foolishness -- it's looking like he may just take 20MM to call it a day.

Not a bad golden parachute.

H.E. Pennypacker

Whatley:
Politicians might lie, but numbers sure don't.

Jackie:
That's the thing with Jason Bay... he's the quiet, polite Canadian kid. Nobody would expect him to take the wind out of your sails with a 3-run homer, but he just totally might.

Mr. Kruger

Ramirez is a fucking cunt. Starting fights in the dug out, knocking down an old man (McCormick) because he can't get you 16 free tickets, not showing up for games, etc etc. After Chiles' relentless cocksucking of this moron you'd think he was some kind all-powerful being. Chiles do you owe this guy money or something.

More importantly, the lack of Masshole appreciation for Manny is almost criminal.

I thought Vandelay's concern over the "moral fiber" of society exemplified the height of dementia. Chiles wasted no time in proving me wrong.

Ortiz, Lowell, Beckett, Pedroia, Youkalis- these are some names that represent the core of the team. Manny intentionally placed himself on the outside and they dealt with it for that reliable bat. But at some point, when one guy is fucking with whole club because his ego isn't getting stroked long and hard enough and the players, not management, get sick and tired of it- then the only logical thing to do is send him off. Getting rid of Ramirez was a no brainer and Sox will be a lot better off for it.

Newman

Manny is awesome. But, he's also 36. Bay is 29. I don't think it's a terrible deal by the Sox (although Manny outperforms Bay any day of the week).

phil

Sorry, but talent does not grant you a free pass to be an asshole. Don't care what he can do.

jackie

"Sorry, but talent does not grant you a free pass to be an asshole. Don't care what he can do."

It doesn't? In sports? Really? News to me.

I do, however, believe Chris Russo endorses such a policy (when it comes to trangressions much worse than Manny's).

Mr. Kruger

Silly me.

Radical understatement.

You're killing me, "part of the fabric": between your fabric and Vandelay's fibers we should rename this blog The Burlap of Nonsenses.

Pedro Martinez sets Old Blue Balls down on a soft patch of tufted Brooklyn divot, so what. If that was a representative of NYC's finest standing in Pedro's shoe Mr Zimmer would've had hole in head with blue smoke wafting out of it. Why don't you ask yourself wtf was he thinking charging Martinez who wasn't even in the brawl?

phil

@ Jackie

Yes, in professional sports, there appears to be a free pass. There shouldn't be one.

Johnnie

I don't know a single Yankee fan who is not ecstatic to hear that Manny Ramirez is no longer with the Red Sox. The dude just absolutely, positively, killed the Yankees. One of the best right-handed hitters in the history of the game and his teams consistently make it to the playoffs.

Congrats. Feels like a large weight lifted off of your collective shoulders, doesn't it?

The Fucking Massholes don't win the thing the Yankess have won 26 times in about 100 years, Manny comes around, they win it twice and then all they want to do is bitch and moan about Manny Being Manny, whatever that means. Honestly, who gives a fuck how he acts? Yeah, the outright dogging it on occassion is defintiely not cool, but you know what? The guy fucking Produces. And he Produces BigTime. You're gonna replace him with Jason Bay? Seriously? Laughable.

First, mentioning how often the Yankees have won the World Series and comparing it with the Red Sox in the same sentence always seems like the last resort subconscious dig that Yankees fans grasp at like the last rung of a rope ladder hanging off of helicopter in flight. It's sad. Give it up.

Second, Manny, as was mentioned, "came around" in '01. He, solely, was not the reason for the success of the Red Sox championships, but was an integral part of them -- along with all the other important signings and trades pulled of in that time frame. But I believe Peter Gammons says it best when he wrote "The curse, as most everyone now realizes, was management and pitching...". So even the most devestating lineup assembled in Boston during Manny's reign would have probably fallen short.

Third, you know who got tired of Manny in the end of it all most? The players did.

"General manager Theo Epstein was working with a mandate from within his own clubhouse. After his team’s dispiriting loss to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim on Wednesday night, Epstein met with a handful of Red Sox veterans, all of whom delivered the same message: Manny had to go."

So who gives a fuck how he acts? His co-workers did. And THEY told Epstein it had to be done. So it looks like "character in the clubhouse" > "produce."

Lastly, at least the Red Sox got something for Manny. Remember, it's only a 2 month rental of his services + Hansen + Moss for Bay. Scott Boras had to have orchestrated this from the get-go. He wasn't making a penny off of Manny if his team options for the next 2 years were picked up. He dropped the bug in Manny's ear that a 4 yr/$100 MM is strongly possible and that caused Manny to dog it. Had to. What's worse, this is pretty much an absolute certainty because at zero hour If the Sox dropped the option years on his contract - which they had agreed to do if they traded him - Boras said Ramírez would not be a problem the rest of the season." O RLY? That's low. That's like attacking a 64 year old because he can't get you tickets low.

More importantly, the lack of Masshole appreciation for Manny is almost criminal. He brings you two rings and somehow he is The Bad Guy?

I appreciate everything he has done on the field for production with the Red Sox. I own a Mitchell & Ness Sox jersey that proves that. But it's a bit souring to an outsider who judges "Massholes" (on a criminal scale nonetheless) that we are somehow not appreciative. Furthermore, he certainly played the role damn well of "Bad Guy" in the time leading up to this do or die situation. So if my adoration is muffled because of some things, you may need to read a few articles and redetermine the position of most Red Sox fans.

As always, Boston just flat out sucks...not to mention being officially out of playoff contention.

And the typical last dig from an individual who struts his shit about Yankee "class." Funny how you shit on Vandelay for using ellipses. Look at what you just did.

Dare I say, High. Comedy.

jackie

Funny how you shit on Vandelay for using ellipses. Look at what you just did.

Umm, you have umm...entirely missed the point.

You are excused though, as you were clearly caught up in one of those unfortunate moments where severe Boston (and Red Sox) inferiority complex had you as wound up as a little pit bull terrier in heat.

Looks like Bob Barker still has some work to do.

Jack Klompus

"So who gives a fuck how he acts? His co-workers did."

Good point. I remember Ortiz always defending Manny's shenanigans in the past. Not so much this time around.

puddy

worst, photoshop,ever.

jackie

"worst, photoshop,ever."

Blame Newman.

Newman

You take that back. That reads like I am somehow associated with that image.

TMan

Thanks Jackie. I'm glad someone pointed out that all people from Massachusetts think exactly alike on the Manny topic. I hadn't gotten that anyplace else.

Manny can eat a dick, as far as I'm concerned. I never liked the fact that the Sox made him the second highest paid player and he was a glorified DH. I never liked the fact that his fielding was liability at best and he seemed to be amused by it. And I hated that "Manny Being Manny" bullshit. The only criminal thing about this fiasco was that he made $168 million from the Sox over the past 8 years and told ESPN Deportes that he couldn’t have any mental peace because the Sox wouldn’t pick up his two $20 million/year options before September. Manny: Eat. A. Dick.

So, good riddance and enjoy him wearing him pinstripes next year. I'll laugh when the Yanks overpay another declining superstar who will proceed to break down shortly thereafter. Or when his knees bother him again.

jackie

You take that back. That reads like I am somehow associated with that image.

That's what you get for putting your personal life ahead of The Grievances.

Art Vandelay

Manny comes around, they win it twice and then all they want to do is bitch and moan about Manny Being Manny, whatever that means.

This sentence makes no sense by the way Chiles. "Manny being Manny" was never something that Sox fans bitched about. It's quite the opposite. If anything, it's something that was created to free the guy from blame and possibly even enabled him.

randi

Los Angeles is happy to have him!!!

Jack Klompus

"Los Angeles is happy to have him!!!"

There was a time when they were happy to have Andruw Jones as well.

jackie

This sentence makes no sense by the way Chiles. "Manny being Manny" was never something that Sox fans bitched about. It's quite the opposite. If anything, it's something that was created to free the guy from blame and possibly even enabled him.

Vandelay: I know you can read, and hope you understand the basic concept of "before and after." With that in mind, here are the Google results of "enough of Manny being Manny."

Happy to simplify yet again.

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