Patriots**

Not only do they use HGH, they also steal signals.  And.....it was a fumble.  In what surely has Vandelay's panties wetter than a dishrag, the Patriots have been cited by the NFL for violating league policies pertaining to videotaping opposing teams' coaches.  Let me just say first and foremost, if it is decided that they broke the rules -- I hope the Patriots are given the maximum penalty.  How stupid can you be to have your team's video assistant pointing a video camera at the defensive playcallers the entire game without thinking anyone would notice -- knowing full well it's against the rules? They are either very dumb, or very brazen (or perhaps both). Secondly, if this is a no-no, why does the NFL allow teams to have their own video equipment down on the field? 

So my challenge to the AofG faithful is, what do you think the penalty should be (serious or non-serious)?  Be creative.

Comments

[SL22]

I think they should all have to bicycle through Atlanta.

[Art Vandelay]

The Patriots aren't allowed to play in any playoff games until Tom Brady retires.

Seriously, I'd say a forfeit. Belichick was already warned and he basically told the league he's not afraid of them. It seems like the only fair penalty. I don't really understand how the operation works and I don't know if makes that much of a difference (certainly didn't on Sunday) but that raises the question...if it doesn't give you a pretty decent advantage, why do it?

With the kind of talent the Pats have and two more 1st round picks next year, a 4th round pick is most likely just a practice squad player.

[Jack Klompus]

"Seriously, I'd say a forfeit."

I agree, Vandelay. That would to be the most fitting penalty. Draft picks seems like kind of a half-serious punishment.

[Dr. Strangejazz]

Take the fucking rings.

That is all.

[DFS]

should be similar to punishment for college programs with serious violations..no bowl game LOL

[Craig]

I'm thinking along similar lines as DFS. Since I'm more of a college football fan than NFL usually, I looked at this and my immediate thought was that this was not just (to steal David Stern's favorite phrase of late) "a rogue criminal", this was the much bigger problem that the NCAA refers to as "Lack of Institutional Control." This is the New England organization not only ignoring, but allowing and likely encouraging this to go on. To punish them with a draft pick is to tell every other team that they can decide if it is worth the risk and do it anyway. In an era of free-agency, losing a late draft pick is hardly impossible to overcome. Punish them by hitting them where it hurts the most: The bank account. If you fine and take away some of the possibilities for more revenue (whether it's TV money or going to the playoffs) you will discourage this type of behavior, because the owners may all want to win, but not as much as they want to make money.

So, there are my very uneducated thoughts on the situation.

[Assman]

I'd think a forfeit is most likely. I'd like to see a forfeit and possibly a few coaches suspended. Maybe some cash and a pick. They've got to go way overboard with this because a.) they want to avoid being lumped in with the NBA and b.) this has to be stopped now.

If I were running the NFL, I'd make the Pats put patches on their jerseys that say, "Yes, it was a fumble," and let it be.

[TMan]

Jackie, check your facts. It did not happen "the entire game" The camera was confiscated halfway through the first quarter. There is no way it had any impact on the outcome the game.

NFL team punishment consists of three types: (i) forfeit of draft picks; (ii) suspension of coaching staff; and (iii) fines. Check it out. Just because some contributors here have a hard-on for the Pats doesn't mean there should be a new punishment regime for yet another example of an NFL team trying to get a leg up.

[Art Vandelay]

Tman, you don't honestly beleve there's nothing more to this but envy, do you? I'm not gonna pretend to like the Pats but the evidence here is pretty damning.

Have you ever wondered why you can just plug no names in on that offensive line all the time and they still seem to always know when the blitz is coming? Did you ever think it was weird how a 6th round pick became so masterful at reading defenses? This is not to say I don't think Brady is a great QB...he's one of the best but you have to be at least somewhat concerned here...no?

[Jack Klompus]

"Jackie, check your facts. It did not happen "the entire game" The camera was confiscated halfway through the first quarter. There is no way it had any impact on the outcome the game."

TMan, check your facts first. It wasn't Jackie that said that -- it was me. And I wasn't aware that it was discovered during the first quarter -- so my apologies. As far as impact on the game, it's hard to tell. If they got enough footage to see what packages or adjustments the Jets were sending, then it could be very advantageous. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that a team has only one play signaler. As well, I also find it difficult to believe that the Jets wouldn't change up their signals after suspecting this was going on (not to mention being privy to the confiscation).

Still, rules are rules (i.e., tuck rules). If they're not enforced, they're pointless.

[Assman]

Jackie, check your facts. It did not happen "the entire game" The camera was confiscated halfway through the first quarter. There is no way it had any impact on the outcome the game.

I had no idea Bill Simmons was commenting on the AofG.

And if a team is stealing signals, they only need to see them a few times to know what to look for. Keep in mind that the head coach of the Pats has some familiarity with the head coach of the Jets and may have known what to look for on the sidelines and when.

Remember when Jon Gruden and Tampa Bay undressed the Raiders in the SuperBowl? (I do.) Remember when Don Nelson undressed the Mavericks last playoff season? These things matter a bit.

[Jack Klompus]

"Keep in mind that the head coach of the Pats has some familiarity with the head coach of the Jets and may have known what to look for on the sidelines and when."

But Mangini has no familiarity with Belichick and the Pats?

[Assman]

But Mangini has no familiarity with Belichick and the Pats?

Probably enough to say, "I'll bet he was doing the camcorder trick again. Call the NFL office." Both are familiar with each other, but only one saw fit to cheat.

[Jack Klompus]

"Probably enough to say, "I'll bet he was doing the camcorder trick again. Call the NFL office.""

Exactly. But coaches are already aware of this anyway. That's why they have multiple play callers and change signals constantly. Look, I'm not saying they weren't cheating. I'm also not saying their penalty should be proportional to the impact it had on the game. Going into the game with a premeditated plan to circumvent the rules is serious, whether the cheating pays off or not. But I don't believe that familiarity enhances the efficacy of the cheating any more than it prepares the victim of the cheating on how to guard against it.

[Art Vandelay]

In his PC, Belichick said they misinterpreted the rule. That of course is BS. He's got to be careful the way he approaches this. Goodell has been lied to before and surely doesn't appreciate it.

[Assman]

But I don't believe that familiarity enhances the efficacy of the cheating any more than it prepares the victim of the cheating on how to guard against it.

Fair enough. I personally think it would, but there's no evidence either way. Especially if one side goes into the game expecting the other to only use legal means to gain an advantage. If you're not expecting cheating, I'm not sure you guard against it until well after you've noticed its effects.

[Kristal K]

I agree with the forfeit. I also think that the coaching staff and entire team should be locked in a room with Brady's kid for three hours while the reminder-of-his-bad-relationship is having an episode of colic.

Just sayin.

[Assman]

Another thing to be mindful of regarding the punishment here...

In life, being likeable goes a loooong way. In any given office, any number of the people there can be fired, but the only ones that have to really worry about it are the ones that everyone doesn't like. That's why Bonds's steroid trouble is as big as it is compared to other users. It pays to be liked / respected by your peers and superiors. It just does. There's a tangible effect there.

Is Belichick liked by people around the NFL? Do they think he comes off as arrogant and prickish as some Pats haters do? If they don't like him, they could go overboard with this.

[TMan]

Jackie, my apologies.

Klompus, how would it give them an advantage during the game if the camera was confiscated by the league during the first quarter and put in a box? No one other than league personnel had access to the box. THerefore they wouldn't have access to any footage at all. So they would have to rely on the memory of an assistant video guy to tell them what means what. Seems highly unlikely to me.

Art, couldn't it be that the Jets just suck?

[Jack Klompus]

"If you're not expecting cheating, I'm not sure you guard against it until well after you've noticed its effects."

But as you noted, Mangini is familiar with the Pats and they way they do things. As well, take away the camera and you still have a human(s) watching the signals (which is not illegal). You don't think teams prepare for that? Yeah, obviously video makes it easier for the signal stealer; however, the defense against it would be about the same in either case.

[Art Vandelay]

Tman, I don't think they beat the Jets because they stole signals. There's a bigger story here and that is that this has been going on for years. I have no proof of that but if it is validated, the court of public perception is going to frown upon this "dynasty" regardless of what punishment the team gets from the league office.

[Jack Klompus]

"Klompus, how would it give them an advantage during the game if the camera was confiscated by the league during the first quarter and put in a box? No one other than league personnel had access to the box. THerefore they wouldn't have access to any footage at all."

That's assuming they were using a tape-only camera with no digital feeds. Whether or not that was the case, I don't know. We do know the Pats are also being investigated more violation of radio frequencies during that game.

That said, I think maybe I wasn't clear about the "impact of the game" point. In this game, it probably didn't affect the outcome because (a) they only had 7 or so minutes of game footage; (b) the Jets couldn't defend their way out of a wet paper bag (i.e., Moss caught a TD in triple coverage). However, it still could have forced the Jets to make more adjustments than they normally would, especially knowing that Pats were recording their first few series. It's hard to tell exactly what effect that did have. As Vandelay pointed out, if this didn't provide a potential edge, the Pats wouldn't have been trying it.

[J. Peterman]

kick Belichek in the junk, force Tom Brady to shave his gay Abercrombie Male Model beard, and then allow Deion Branch to take a dump on a Pats jersey in public.

After that, you suspend the "Genius" and have the Police place him under house arrest with only Taco Bell to eat for an entire season and no toilet paper. That should get the point across.

[M. Butler]

I would love to eat Taco Bell for an entire football season. God, I could go for 2 bean burritos, 2 crunchy tacos, 1 soft taco, and 1 encharito and a whole lot of fire sauce right now.

[M. Butler]

And I firmly believe that is the best Taco Bell order. Try and top it.