Pit Bull Fighting vs. Hunting For Sport

With the Michael Vick indictment coming down, the cries of how vicious and inhumane pit bull fighting is have pretty much reached a fever pitch. Folks are all up in arms over the things Vick and his people are alleged to have done. Now personally, I think anyone who is drowning, strangling, hanging, shooting or electrocuting dogs for losing a fight should be exposed to repeated sodomization by DaveinNYC's pack of deranged wild goats, but that said, I have a very hard time buying the "public outrage," when most people really don't give a shit that Jim Billy Bob and his boys regularly go around killing animals for sport -- just for shits, giggles and heads-on-walls and not even eating the meat. You can give me the one is "legal" and the other is "illegal" business all you want -- and I simply reply with "slavery was legal, that does not make it right" -- but I'm gonna have to hear something better to convince me that this "public outrage" isn't a bit contrived considering that I don't recall hearing the masses getting all worked up about putting wild animals in confined surroundings, hunting them with loaded weapons and then going on like a waste of space douchebag that you've somehow proved yourself to be the better being.

I guess my point is that I'm just not buying what most people are selling in the pissed off department on this one. Just seems like most folks are doing the typical sheep routine and acting all worked up, because that's what's expected, not because that's what they really believe.

Comments

[Assman]

As I understand it, sport hunting also helps maintain population control so some of these animals don't starve to death.

And a lot of sport hunters eat what they shoot, which seems like a lot less of a mindfuck than, say, catch and release fishing.

Dogfighting, for all I can tell, just seems to be like that Gladiator movie, except without Joaquin Phoenix. Painful for everyone involved.

[jackie]

"And a lot of sport hunters eat what they shoot..."

I have less of a problem with this. I used "sports hunting" hoping to get across that I meant just killing animals for "sport" and not eating 'em. Guess I did not to a good job, or I just misused the term. I will edit now.

Thanks.

[Orange]

Oh! Oh! Me! *waving hand wildly*

I scorn hunters even more than people involved in dog fighting. (And I don't like the ones who are taking a side of venison home from to eat any better than the ones who go on those rigged game hunts.)

I'll go to the zoo with my kid, but I feel a little guilty about it--I have a friend who will not go to the zoo because she objects to the institutionalized captivity of animals.

[Jackie]

"Painful for everyone involved."

Except for the guy whose dog wins...who somehow thinks said victory means his dick is bigger than everyone elses'.

[Jack Klompus]

I agree with you, Chiles re: the contrived outrage mob. People, for a number of reasons, take pleasure in successful people's problems. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves. If it was Billy Bob doing the dog fighting, most people would pay no attention (and it wouldn't be news).

"I don't recall hearing the masses get all worked up about putting wild animals in confined surroundings, hunting them with loaded weapons and then going on like a waste of space douchebag that you proved yourself to be the better being."

As Assman correctly pointed out, hunting is useful in that it controls animal populations that would otherwise starve to death if left alone. More succintly, animals like deer are eating and fucking machines -- they will consume and multiply until there is no forage left for any of them (or other animals as well). On top of that, predators that you don't want in excess are controlled as well ((i.e., coyotes, rabid wolverines) Preserving animal species at the expense of some redneck entertainment is far more humane than sitting by idle and watching them all die.

Moreover, if dogfighting is entertaining to some folks, so be it. There are plenty of things besides dogfighting that people do for entertainment that also happen to be less than humane. But comparing it to hunting -- I don't think so.

[Art Vandelay]

That indictment pisses me off only because I was completely blind that such things went on. I mean, who drowns a dog? As to not be hypocritical, I don't like hunting either. I understand the benefits but it infuriates me a bit when people brag about the fact that they blew bambi's head off.

Aside from this, after reading through some of that indictment, I just can't see any way how Vick (or Ookie) doesn't get time and if Goodell wants to maintain credibility, he should suspend his ass for the season.

[Jackie]

If Vick does go to prison, does anyone think the pretty much general knowledge that he has herpes will keep him safe?

[M. Butler]

I'm sure the people doing the raping in prison might call Vick's Herpes and raise him an HIV. I hope his elusiveness helps in the joint.

Wow, the over under on which Vick will do more time in prison kicks into high gear. I think the Vick family can safely be described as athletically talented ass clowns.

[Itchy]

I scorn hunters even more than people involved in dog fighting. (And I don't like the ones who are taking a side of venison home from to eat any better than the ones who go on those rigged game hunts.)

This kinda pissed me off, I gotta be honest. How can you scorn hunters more than dog fighers? I think I need to know this.

I'm not really down with the whole "let's go out into the woods and kill deer for fun" way of life but, yes there is a but, it is necessary to an extent for reasons already highlighted. And sure, I don't know all of the hunters in the world so I can only speak on the ones I do. They didn't torture the deer. They didn't make the deer attack one another til one was dead or injured. If they shot them and they didn't die, they tracked them, found them, finished them off. Sure, the deer suffered in the meantime but the hunters were being as humane as possible while doing the hunting. Yes, yes...I know. Humane and killing. But that's what hunting is. And most of the people I know that hunted also ate what they killed. So, how is that different than me eating a steak? Or a burger?

BUT...dogs are companion animals. They are domesticated. They live with people. They trust humans. Dog fighting is horrible. I don't care who's involved. I don't care if it's Vick or Billy Bob. It's wrong. It's wrong to the dogs you are fighting. It's wrong to the people who's pets are stolen to use as bait dogs. It's wrong to the dogs "adopted" from the shelters to use as bait dogs. It's barbaric. It's....horrific! I cannot imagine not being worked up over this.

And yes, I also get this worked up over the hunting of wild animals in confined areas. Or people feeding deer in their yard year round just so they can shoot 'em when the calendar says it's OK to. You just killed your own pet in my eyes. But for real, actual hunting to be not as scornful to someone as dog fighting just really confuses me. No comparison here. None.

[Art Vandelay]

BUT...dogs are companion animals. They are domesticated. They live with people. They trust humans.

I'm not condoning or trying to justify any of this but let's consider the breed.

We're not dealing with Lassie, here.

[Itchy]

I'm not condoning or trying to justify any of this but let's consider the breed.

We're not dealing with Lassie, here.

The article you linked to just raises another issues, though. Responsible breeding and responsible ownership. Any dog, with poor breeding or training can kill/attack/injure. If you go here you'll see a listing of fatalities and the breeds they are attributed to. A West Highland White Terrier is on that list. Most people wouldn't dream of vilifying a Westie because they are so cute and fluffy. In the wrong hands any dog can kill. So, it's not really fair to bring that up in an anti-dog fighting argument. Even if you stipulate that you are not condoning it. Because most people that are for breed specific bans will ignore that statement and go right for the "well it just goes to show that it's those damn pit bulls and that's just what they do."

And before anyone attacks me for not commenting on how horrific that news story was, I'll point out that yes I do have a heart. Any dog that attacks to the point of death any person should be put down. No questions asked.

[Assman]

I'm sure the people doing the raping in prison might call Vick's Herpes and raise him an HIV. I hope his elusiveness helps in the joint.

Excellent point. Does he get to take his offensive line with him? I get the feeling the sentence "Michael Vick got hit with three sacks today," is going to take ona new meaning.

I used "sports hunting" hoping to get across that I meant just killing animals for "sport" and not eating 'em.

I once knew a guy who used to shoot turtles just to hear the sound of their shells cracking. That guy needs guidance. And a few sacks.

People, for a number of reasons, take pleasure in successful people's problems.

Unless they're beloved successful people. Then we just pretend that its somehow not their fault.

[Babu]

As a dog owner, I think dog fighting is horrible.

To quote Jules, "Dog's got personality; personality goes a long way.".

I haven't ever had a deer or moose snuggle up on the couch with me, I don't see people hunting dogs, horses, cats, or any other domesticated animal, for those animals too stupid to evolve and make friends with man...well, fuck em, they're dinner.

Oh, and Itchy, good argument, I know some amazing pit bulls, and I think my mutt has some pit in him too.

[Assman]

Two more and I'm done:

and if Goodell wants to maintain credibility, he should suspend his ass for the season.

To say the least. Even with that asinine repeat offender clause that doesn't require a conviction, Vick still has the weed water bottle incident against him. That Matt Schaub trade doesn't look so good now, does it?

And I don't like the ones who are taking a side of venison home from to eat any better than the ones who go on those rigged game hunts.

Why not? Hunting weakened or overpopulated animals and taking them home to feed the family is as natural as nature gets. That's what lions do and its how our ecosystem thrives. It's more natural than growing animals on farms, I'd say.

[M. Butler]

What we need to do is get Marcus Vick. That way they can rotate as the starting ATL quarterback as they come in and out of prison.

Reporter "When Mike's next start?"

Coach "2 years. 6 months with good behavior."

[M. Butler]

Also, all the Vick fans can keep their shirts if we pick up Marcus and he just takes over the #7 spot.

[Art Vandelay]

Any dog, with poor breeding or training can kill/attack/injure.

I suppose, Itchy. Although there are breeds incapable of doing any damage. I guess (I think) the difference is that pitbulls are violent by nature and can be trained to be domesticated but there's always that nervousness that they're gonna lose it. This is what makes them less sympathetic if you will to me. It's like that joke about people being upset about the dolphins getting caught in the tuna nets and nobody caring about the tuna. I can't justify it.

This would be a bigger story if were talking about Golden Retrievers, right?

[jackie]

"That Matt Schaub trade doesn't look so good now, does it?"

How about the essential Tomlinson, Brees, Merriman one?

[jackie]

"I'm sure the people doing the raping in prison might call Vick's Herpes and raise him an HIV.

Outstanding.

[Itchy]

Although there are breeds incapable of doing any damage.

I'm not familiar with these breeds. Most breeds I'm familiar with do have teeth...

that pitbulls are violent by nature and can be trained to be domesticated but there's always that nervousness that they're gonna lose it.

That's the general reputation of the "pit bull" that is not correct. If you have a poorly bred pit with a known violent temperament, then yes...the puppies will also have a good chance of also being violent. But that is not the natural temperament of a "pit" (which is a generic term, by the way, and most dogs identified as pits are usually a mixed breed).

This would be a bigger story if were talking about Golden Retrievers, right?

It would be more surprising to some people based on the usual temperament of a Golden as being sweet and gentle, yes. But they are still dogs and things can, and will, happen.

There is some discussion out there that stories about breeds other than "pits" fatally attacking people being buried by the media to keep the focus on pits = evil. If a dog has attacked and killed someone but is a known pit/lab mix, it is alleged that it will only be revealed that the dog was a pit. I can't speak on the validity of these claims.

[M. Butler]

Early Norm McDonald Comedy
- Norm MacDonald hilariously explains why he would buy a "wiener dog" and why he would not buy a Doberman or a pit bull.

http://www.encyclomedia.com/video-early_norm_mcdonald_comedy.html

[Art Vandelay]

I'm not familiar with these breeds. Most breeds I'm familiar with do have teeth...

Cats have teeth too. We're not worried about them mauling anyone.

Know what we should be afraid of? Emu. Those things are fucking nasty.

Yeah, I have no documentation to support my bias against the pitbull and it's probably eassier to argue the other way but it's just there. I suppose that's canine discrimination and I'm part of the problem but so be it.

Again, none of this makes this mess with Vick any less reprehensible.

[Art Vandelay]

By the way, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the conspiracy theories about the media villifying pitbulls originate mostly from pitbull owners.

[Orange]

Well, assman, I'm no fan of the institutionalized warehousing of animals for meat, either...

I do not trust pit bulls. Yes, they can be raised by responsible people, but they still have jaws with deadly power, and they're still animals with natural impulses, and I don't want 'em living on my block.

[Jack Klompus]

"I do not trust pit bulls. Yes, they can be raised by responsible people, but they still have jaws with deadly power, and they're still animals with natural impulses, and I don't want 'em living on my block."

Wow Orange, you're full of scorn and distrust. Hypothetically if you had to choose one to live on your block, which would it be: a hunter or a pitbull? 30 seconds. Go.