Greatest Bullocks

Well, America, here he is - your Greatest American - well, according to people who cared enough to use their cell phone to vote in the Discovery Channel's sham poll.

I mean, even crappy bald (yeah, I said it, he's bald) Matt Lauer couldn't believe the results, but I knew it would go down this way last week.  Washington and Franklin would split the founding father vote, and Lincoln and King would split the black and liberal vote, while the cracka-ass-cracka and hard-core Republican vote would go entirely to Reagan.  It was almost a foregone conclusion he would win a vote of the 5.  If it were a vote of the top 2 or 3, no way Reagan wins.

Unlike many, I won't bash Reagan.  I think he was an the right man at the right time at an inflection point in our national history.  Does he belong in the top 25 Americans?  I would say almost certainly.  The fact is, though, that if given such a choice, Reagan probably would have voted for Lincoln.  More than anything, Reagan was a man who respected the office of the Presidency, and what it meant to be President.   There is a story that Don Regan, Reagan's chief of staff tells that Reagan refused to remove his jacket in the Oval Office on a hot day in DC, solely because he felt so strongly about the seriousness of the job.  Part of that respect is the greatness that people like Washington and Lincoln and Roosevelt brought to the office before him.

As for me, I would have gone with Lincoln.  He was a self educated son of a Kentucky dirt farmer who became an attorney and then an amazing statesman who saved our country, freed the slaves, and shepherded the idea of American Nationalism and gave us great rhetoric like this and this and this.  I guess Leo Tolstoy said it best when he said that we can never truly know Lincoln's greatness because we are (still) too close to it - it's like the sun, and that his true greatness will come centuries from now.  When historians talk about America a millenium from today, Licoln will still be a pivotal figure in his century (maybe only second to Napoleon), and Reagan won't be more than a footnote.

I say that we should have our own informal sham poll.  Have at it, AofG.  Who are your greatest Americans?  You can pick one American, and we will post it on our site.  I'm guessing Ronnie won't win.

Comments

[Nominal Me]

Ronnie Reagan rules.

[briandtw]

Greatest American ever? I'm hardly surprised that a majority of dog-fucking, mouth-breathing morons might think that, but I'm going to write the dissent on this opinion and simply state that anyone who sells weapons to a sworn enemy to pay for an illegal and immoral war shouldn't probably have made the cut. That's probably just me though.

[Cozmo]

So, Jefferson, Hamilton, Franklin and Washington are out too then, DTW?

[briandtw]

Did all those guys sell weapons to our enemies? I'll have to admit to being somewhat ignorant about the full biography of all our founding fathers.

[Cozmo]

No, but they did provide safe harbour to (and received considerable assistance from) France, their mortal enemy just ten years earlier.

Hell, Washington's entire military reputation was made by firing the first live shots in what became the French & Indian wars in 1754 at Fort Necessity in a "pre-emptive strike," against the French at Fort Duquesne (which Washington went on to lose).

[briandtw]

Well, I would argue that's apples and oranges of course. I was wondering if you were referring to the relationship with the French. Alliances and relationships changed very quickly back then (and them sometimes still do).

Back to today's day and age -- I don't have a problem necessarily with realpolitik, but I would argue that regardless of whatever he "accomplished" as president, Reagan's legacy should always be tarnished by Iran-Contra. Perhaps just as "unfairly", Clinton's should also be by the scandals in his administration.

[Cozmo]

Fair point, Brian. I certainly don't forget Iran-Contra, and it will be the "Teapot Dome" scandal of our generation.

My point was that the Discovery channel poll was a sham at best and that Reagan, while he looms large in American politics today, won't be studied as a great American generations from now.

[briandtw]

No argument, Coz. I agree 100 percent. Comparing Reagan to Lincoln is like comparing Maura Tierney to Angelina Jolie. Like you said, as Reagan himself would have probably agreed as well.

I'm just calling a spade a spade and saying if you (not you, Coz - the royal you) think Reagan is one of the top 5 Americans ever, much less THE greatest American ever then you are an idiot and probably should be slapped around on general principle.

[Nominal Me]

Cozmo, not only will Reagan be remembered as one of our greatest presidents, he and FDR will be recognized as the two greatest of the last century.

When his legacy becomes more about history and less about today's partisanship, he will be remembered as the man who won the Cold War.

[Cozmo]

Look, NomMe. I liked Reagan. I think he was the perfect guy at the exact right time. He always made me feel good about our country, even if Iran-Contra was a stain on his Presidency, I remember him fondly. His best quality is that the Soviets didn't know what the hell to think of him, and he sacred them shitless.

But, partisanship aside, if I were ranking 20th Century Presidents, he's not in the same league as FDR.

I would probably go with the following list:
1. FDR
2. Teddy Roosevelt
3. Woodrow Wilson
4. Reagan
5. Carter (just kidding)
5. Ford (still kidding)
5. Truman (seriously)

[Nominal Me]

Our list isn't that dramatically different Cozmo. I'd say TR is #3.

After Reagan, FDR, and TR, the fourth falls pretty far down.

[M. Butler]

I have the Stiffmeister as number three, although he is not president (yet).